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  #1  
Unread January 20th, 2017, 05:19 PM
picknpluck picknpluck is offline
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Default F-14 Ordnance Question

The Tamiya Tomcat comes with parts to make multiple versions of Sidewinders, Sparrows, and Phoenixes. What versions would have likely been carried by VF-21 in 1995? I'm pretty sure AIM-9Ms were standard by then and I'm certain AIM-54Cs, but what about Sparrows?
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Unread January 20th, 2017, 06:52 PM
GW8345 GW8345 is offline
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AIM-7M Sparrows would be the Sparrow version that would be carried.

You are correct for the Sidewinder and Phoenixs, AIM-9M and AIM-54C's.
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Unread January 20th, 2017, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GW8345 View Post
AIM-7M Sparrows would be the Sparrow version that would be carried.

You are correct for the Sidewinder and Phoenixs, AIM-9M and AIM-54C's.
Thanks Gerry! Which one of these is an M?
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Unread January 20th, 2017, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by picknpluck View Post
Thanks Gerry! Which one of these is an M?
The Sparrow on the right, the one with the wiring conduit that goes all the way to the tail of the missile.
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Last edited by GW8345; January 20th, 2017 at 09:06 PM.
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Unread January 20th, 2017, 09:05 PM
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Once again, you're the man! Thanks Gerry
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  #6  
Unread January 20th, 2017, 11:34 PM
GW8345 GW8345 is offline
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Here are some pics of an AIM-7M

http://i.imgur.com/Kwp5h2O.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._AFB_1988.JPEG

http://www.cndsi.com/bingqi/missle/aim-7-dvic403.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Roof...IM-7K.jpg.html
(Photo Credit: Dave Roof)

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Roof...IM-7M.jpg.html
(Photo Credit: Dave Roof)

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Roof...IM-7D.jpg.html
(Photo Credit: Dave Roof)

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Roof...IM-7A.jpg.html
(Photo Credit: Dave Roof)

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Roof...IM-7I.jpg.html
(Photo Credit: Dave Roof)

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Roof...IM-7I.jpg.html
(Photo Credit: Dave Roof)

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Roof...IM-7H.jpg.html
(Photo Credit: Dave Roof)

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Roof...IM-7H.jpg.html
(Photo Credit: Dave Roof)

http://postfiles6.naver.net/20140113...ow.jpg?type=w1

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ng_install.jpg

BTW, the missile on the left in your pic is an AIM-7E (though its missing the aft wave guide conduit), the one right can be made into either an AIM-7F or AIM-7M. The only external difference between the -7F and the -7M is that the -7F had only two TDD windows (180 degrees apart) while the -7M had four (90 degrees apart).

The TDD windows are the brown horizontal stripes on the nose, just aft of the radome.

hth
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  #7  
Unread January 21st, 2017, 12:25 AM
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I just cracked open my Tamiya F-14 and here are some notes concerning the ordnance that I didn't see in the instructions.

To make a AIM-54C, use parts Z10 in place of Z9. The AIM-54C did not have external TDD's (little rectangle protrusions), those were only on the AiM-54A.

For the Sparrows, missile body Z14 are AIM-7E, missile body Z13 are AIM-7F or AIM-7M.

For the Sidewinders, nose section Z4 (with fin Z2) are for AIM-9D/G/H, nose section Z3 (with fin Z1) are for AIM-9L/M.

Also, though not ordnance related I'll throw this out anyway; for the airbags (parts B13, B14, B15 and B16), if you are going do a plane with the wings out and the engines are not operating (shut down), use parts B13 and B16. Parts B14 and B15 are only if the engines are operating (running). Parts B14 and B15 are inflated airbags while parts B13 and B16 are deflated airbags. On the Tomcat, the only time the airbags were inflated was when the engines were running since the air used to inflate the bags was supplied by bleed air from the engines.

One other note: concerning the seat cushions, in all my years (87-01) in Tomcats, I've never seen seat cushions like that, all the seats cushions I saw were like the ones on page 71 of the Daco book.

hth
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  #8  
Unread January 21st, 2017, 10:04 AM
picknpluck picknpluck is offline
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So you're saying the seats AREN'T ribbed for her pleasure?
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Unread January 21st, 2017, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
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So you're saying the seats AREN'T ribbed for her pleasure?


Nope


But after sitting on that seat for a while it felt like you were sitting on a pile of bricks.
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Unread January 21st, 2017, 12:49 PM
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Sit in the gunner's seat of a Bradley Fighting Vehicle for awhile then come talk to me
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Unread January 21st, 2017, 02:25 PM
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Sit in the gunner's seat of a Bradley Fighting Vehicle for awhile then come talk to me
Forget that! We called those things "Purple Heart Boxes"!
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Unread January 21st, 2017, 06:33 PM
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Forget that! We called those things "Purple Heart Boxes"!
Coffin is more like it. Did you ever see "The Pentagon Wars?"
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Unread January 21st, 2017, 06:45 PM
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Coffin is more like it. Did you ever see "The Pentagon Wars?"
Nope, never caught it, will have to see if Netflix's has it.
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Unread January 21st, 2017, 08:26 PM
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On a serious note, and back to ordnance, what was a typical load on the boat? I'm thinking 2 AIM-9M and 2 AIM-7M on the glove pylons and 2 AIM-54C on the forward pallets.
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Unread January 21st, 2017, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picknpluck View Post
On a serious note, and back to ordnance, what was a typical load on the boat? I'm thinking 2 AIM-9M and 2 AIM-7M on the glove pylons and 2 AIM-54C on the forward pallets.
Yep, 2 AIM-7M's on the lower wings pylons (stations 1b and 8B), 2 AIM-9M's on the upper wing pylons (stations 1A and 8A) and 2 AIM-54C's on the forward Weapons Rails (stations 3R and 6R).

For everyone's info:

This load out was called 2x2x2, the first number was for Sparrows, second number was for Sidewinders and the third number was for Phoenix's. A 3x2x2 load would be 3 Sparrow's, 2 Sidewinders and 2 Phoenix's

2x2x2 and 3x2x2 was the standard air to air load out, for air to ground we would do 1x1x1 with bomb rails on stations 3R and 6R (the Phoenix would be on either station 1B or 8B, the Sparrow would be on the other "B" station). It was illegal to carry a Sparrow on the aft Sparrow belly station (station 4) with air to ground ordnance loaded on the forward Weapon Rails. When the Lantrin Pod came along we would do either 0x1x1 or 1x1x0, just depends on what the Ops Dept wanted. Usually, half of our birds would be configured with a Phoenix pylon (called a "Phoenix Adapter") on station 1B while the other half had a Sparrow pylon (called a "Sparrow Adapter") on station 1B, station 8B would have the Lantrin pylon (called a "LANTRIN Adapter").

Another common aircraft configuration before the Lantrin Pod's came along was to have one bomb rail on the forward station with one Phoenix rail on the other. Both wing stations would have 1 Sparrow and 1 Sidewinder on each side.

Some squadrons would fly 4x4x0, especially the west coast squadrons.

The above load outs were for when the squadron was on the boat, back on the beach it was a CATM-9M (before 93 without wings and fins/after 93 - with wings and fins) and usually a TACTS Pod (before 93/94 non-ballasted, after 94/95 ballasted).
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Unread January 22nd, 2017, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GW8345 View Post
Yep, 2 AIM-7M's on the lower wings pylons (stations 1b and 8B), 2 AIM-9M's on the upper wing pylons (stations 1A and 8A) and 2 AIM-54C's on the forward Weapons Rails (stations 3R and 6R).

For everyone's info:

This load out was called 2x2x2, the first number was for Sparrows, second number was for Sidewinders and the third number was for Phoenix's. A 3x2x2 load would be 3 Sparrow's, 2 Sidewinders and 2 Phoenix's

2x2x2 and 3x2x2 was the standard air to air load out, for air to ground we would do 1x1x1 with bomb rails on stations 3R and 6R (the Phoenix would be on either station 1B or 8B, the Sparrow would be on the other "B" station). It was illegal to carry a Sparrow on the aft Sparrow belly station (station 4) with air to ground ordnance loaded on the forward Weapon Rails. When the Lantrin Pod came along we would do either 0x1x1 or 1x1x0, just depends on what the Ops Dept wanted. Usually, half of our birds would be configured with a Phoenix pylon (called a "Phoenix Adapter") on station 1B while the other half had a Sparrow pylon (called a "Sparrow Adapter") on station 1B, station 8B would have the Lantrin pylon (called a "LANTRIN Adapter").

Another common aircraft configuration before the Lantrin Pod's came along was to have one bomb rail on the forward station with one Phoenix rail on the other. Both wing stations would have 1 Sparrow and 1 Sidewinder on each side.

Some squadrons would fly 4x4x0, especially the west coast squadrons.

The above load outs were for when the squadron was on the boat, back on the beach it was a CATM-9M (before 93 without wings and fins/after 93 - with wings and fins) and usually a TACTS Pod (before 93/94 non-ballasted, after 94/95 ballasted).
Great info! Between 2x2x2 and 3x2x2, was one more common than the other? Would a CAG bird have a different load?
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  #17  
Unread January 22nd, 2017, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
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Great info! Between 2x2x2 and 3x2x2, was one more common than the other? Would a CAG bird have a different load?
Depending on time frame, before Desert Storm 2x2x2 was common, after D/S, 3x2x2.

CAG birds were treated like any other birds so they would have the same load out as all the other birds, they just looked prettier carrying it.
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Unread January 22nd, 2017, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GW8345 View Post
Depending on time frame, before Desert Storm 2x2x2 was common, after D/S, 3x2x2.

CAG birds were treated like any other birds so they would have the same load out as all the other birds, they just looked prettier carrying it.
When I was Ops on a DDG in '89, we were part of the Theodore Roosevelt BG (this was the TR's 1st deployment), F-14 CAP would check-in with our air-intercept controllers (AIC) & report 2x2x1. When I made a visit to the TR for a BG meeting, I got a chance to talk to some VF-84* crews. I asked the question: why fly with just one AIM-54? The answer was the Phoenix was a poor performer against fighter type A/C & wasn't worth the weight, but the ability to shoot someone in the face beyond their A/C's radar range was a great psychological advantage. So, when any potential adversaries flew out to poke around the US Navy, they wanted them to see that big, huge missile then worry about it.

And that, is the sum total of my F-14 experience.

* IICR, VF-41 was the other fighter squadron in CVW-8 at the time.
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  #19  
Unread January 22nd, 2017, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GW8345 View Post
Depending on time frame, before Desert Storm 2x2x2 was common, after D/S, 3x2x2.

CAG birds were treated like any other birds so they would have the same load out as all the other birds, they just looked prettier carrying it.

The bird I'm doing is circa 1995...so perhaps another Sparrow, then...
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Unread January 23rd, 2017, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
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The bird I'm doing is circa 1995...so perhaps another Sparrow, then...
IIRC you are doing a VF-21 birds, I would recommend a 4x4x0 load. From what I hear the west coast guys seemed to love that load out for some reason.

But a 3x2x2 load out would also be just as accurate as a 4x4x0 load.

It was always fun to pay "deconfigure/reconfigure" and "musical Weapons Rails" switching from 3x2x2 to 4x4x0 and back, it just stressed* you out.



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